Unfortunately, until that part of the Constitution is amended, we are stuck with it. Trump is acting like a bully in high school. He has no concept of adherence to the rule book (the Constitution). So then the rule book (the Constitution) gets updated. That harms those who really do adhere to the rule book (the Constitution) in years to come. The rest of his administration act like the "mean girls / boys" around him. (Ok, I know that this is long-winded, but it's true. Please keep reading.)
The similarities are too striking to be missed. Maybe the entire Trump administration should see the principal. Us.
We have the power to boot him and his ilk out of office. We have the power to ratify our part in changing the Constitution - IF Congress and the Senate as a whole get off their butts and do their jobs. At end of the day, we know everyone's track record. If they keep getting voted back into office, and they are incompetent, that is on us. You would think that the people that the nation chooses to represent them would be the best.
If those in power are the best, we should be ashamed. On the other hand, if some of the best are not in government due to Citizens United, the need to raise an extremely huge amount of money just to run, and the the rug is pulling out from underneath us by those who buy campaigns, I say do something about it. But it is those who are incompetent at their jobs that want to continue this system.
We should make the entire government a minimum wage job. No work, no pay. Then we should kick Citizens United to the curb. Then we should kick big money to the curb. Then we might get some much needed work done.
We would see the minimum wage sky rocket. The Senate and the Congress would actually do their jobs.
But no matter what reforms are made to the system, if we don't pay attention, vote for competency over personality or loyalty, the we are in the same boat. In trouble.
Quote: "We should make the entire government a minimum wage job. No work, no pay. Then we should kick Citizens United to the curb. Then we should kick big money to the curb. Then we might get some much-needed work done."
"...all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office upon impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
But the problem, as I see it, is that if the bloated orange dotard issues blanket pardons for "...treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors," then his minions are off the hook. NOT at the state level, no, but we know they are all crooks, including and especially the Prez, who has full immunity thanks to the unsupremes, so what could be done? They'd all be able to squirm out of prosecution like the snakes and worms they are.
Hi, Laurie: Yes, the U.S. President has the constitutional authority to pardon treason, as it is a federal offense, not an impeachment case. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution provides broad authority for federal offenses, excluding only impeachment cases. However, this power applies solely to federal crimes, not state offenses, and cannot be used to pardon oneself, which remains a subject of legal debate. —Citation, University of Virginia School of Law
Thank you, Charles. Wasn't sure. Happy to know and disappointed at the same time. Ultimately, I am hoping all if his pardons will be challenged on the basis of diminished capacity at time they were issued. Just being wishful.
Any provision anywhere for recall of the president? Since he got voted in, perhaps national convention to un-elect him? CA threw out Gray Davis at the state level. What happened to we the people or was it misstated to wee people.
The various provisions in the Constitution never foresaw a President would be in cahoots and control with both houses of congress, SC and have a DOJ whose only purpose is to go after his political enemies.
Hi, Russ. You are right: The sainted founders, prescient as they were, never quite foresaw a maniac like the bloated orange. I ran your query past Google Gemini, who I have found to be excellent at civics. This is long but thoroughly detailed. As we all know, AI can make mistakes. Note that Gemini cites her sources for each paragraph.
There is no legal provision in the U.S. Constitution, federal statutes, or through any "national convention" that allows voters to un-elect or recall a sitting President before their term is up.
—Medium
While it may feel like a technicality, here is why the mechanisms you described don't exist at the federal level:
Why a "National Convention" Can't Un-elect
National conventions (like the RNC or DNC) are purely party functions, not government bodies.
Purpose: Their role is to nominate a candidate during an election year. Once that person is elected and sworn in, the party convention loses any formal power over them.
Legal Standing: Because the President is elected through the Electoral College (a Constitutional process), a private party gathering cannot legally "nullify" the results of that constitutional event.
—C G A - Connecticut General Assembly (.gov)
The "We the People" Disconnect
The phrase "We the People" established the source of the government's authority, but the Framers were deeply wary of what they called "factions" or "mob rule".
—Marquette Law School
Stability over Immediacy: They intentionally made it difficult to remove a leader mid-term to prevent the country from falling into a "permanent campaign cycle" or constant leadership turnover based on sudden shifts in public mood.
The Compromise: They chose regular elections every four years. In their view, "the people" exercise their power by choosing not to re-elect a president, rather than recalling them.
—Medium
Addressing the "Control of All Branches" Scenario
The Constitution assumes that the House, Senate, and Supreme Court will act as checks on each other. If one party controls the presidency, both houses of Congress, and the DOJ, the primary constitutional "safety valves"—impeachment and legislative oversight—effectively stall.
—Brown Political Review
(This is Chuck writing: the Checks and Balances only work if members are men and women of honor and decency. We have a rogue, criminal Christofascist regime.)
No "Emergency" Voter Override: There is no "break glass in case of emergency" provision that allows voters to bypass a unified government to force a removal.
Sole Remedies: In the situation you described, the remaining legal avenues are:
Midterm Elections: Using the vote to change the majority in Congress to re-establish checks and balances.
General Elections: Voting the president out at the end of the four-year term.
Constitutional Amendment: Changing the Constitution itself to add a recall provision—though this requires a two-thirds vote in Congress and three-fourths of the states, a nearly impossible bar in a divided country.
Medium
While states like California can "throw out" a governor because their state constitutions specifically allow it, the federal system was built to be a much more rigid and slow-moving machine.
Medium
AI can make mistakes, so double-check responses, which I have with a thorough read-through. For my buck, though, Gemini seems to have nailed it, and I do know civics.
Worth reading just to find this. precious. We have a 5 alarm fire and all we can do is watch right now. Presuming Dems come to power in November, still not sure King Tut can be throttled down. He could use all those emergency laws and executive edicts to lock up those he does not like.
Why, if trump and his cabinet is "making America great again" and doing all the right things, would he NEED to pardon anyone? Seems as though he and his cronies KNOW what they have done/are doing is not kosher!!!
The american federal legal system for me as a european "spectator" seems to rely very heavily on the ethical behaviour and the moral grounds of the acting people.
Most of the insiders know that and they see the problems that might arise from that since a couple of years. But the majority seems to be fine with (or because of) that situation.
Something, that I cannot understand as a foreigner. At least I would expect an established, ongoing public discourse about what still might be acceptable or what clearly is over the top. But nobody seems to be interested...
I assure you there is a lot of concern. We are testing the limits of democracy, that has a fatal flaw. It relies on the majority of voters making altruistic decisions in the best interests of the nation. We now realize that is not true, it has become mob rule.
Socrates, a very learned man had it right:
To understand Socrates' views on democracy, consider the following points:
Socrates questioned the competence of the average citizen to make informed decisions.
He believed that democracy could lead to the rule of the uninformed majority.
Socrates emphasized the importance of knowledge and wisdom in governance.
He argued that true leadership should be based on expertise rather than popularity.
Socrates was concerned that democracy could result in mob rule and chaos.
He advocated for a system led by philosopher-kings who possess true understanding.
You pulled my feet back to the ground. - So we seem to have to wait that the environment becomes harsh enough to create some strong people again. Takes some time and we might loose some of the good fellows during that journey…
I'm more concerned about surviving this regime than worried about whether a future president might abuse pardons. How much more abuse can we withstand?
Maybe Trump is not as senile as most people think. He knows that his people around him are criminals like he is and he knows they’ve committed crimes that we’re not aware of yet. What we are seeing here is something I’m going to call.
PREEMPTIVE PARDONS.
Preemptive pardons make a whole lot of sense for the Trump administration because nearly everybody in the Trump order is a criminal.
Wouldn’t it be nice if preemptive prayer actually worked. I’m gonna give it a try. Dear God, in Jesus name, would you restore the limbs of amputees just to show everybody that you really exist and that you’re not evil like I think you are.
They want all the power, and zero responsibility.
This will not fly.
And what entity will stop him ?
We the People.
It will have to be us because the corrupt supreme court and Congress have surely failed.
Is he planning to leave power soon?
The not so supreme court has created a monster!
That's why I call them the Scrotum Court. Should be Sweaty Scrotum Court.
Who is more corrupt than Clarence Thomas ? Harlan Crowe purchased a supreme court justice.
That pardon doesn't cover being prosecuted by a state (state crimes).😁
Unfortunately, until that part of the Constitution is amended, we are stuck with it. Trump is acting like a bully in high school. He has no concept of adherence to the rule book (the Constitution). So then the rule book (the Constitution) gets updated. That harms those who really do adhere to the rule book (the Constitution) in years to come. The rest of his administration act like the "mean girls / boys" around him. (Ok, I know that this is long-winded, but it's true. Please keep reading.)
The similarities are too striking to be missed. Maybe the entire Trump administration should see the principal. Us.
We have the power to boot him and his ilk out of office. We have the power to ratify our part in changing the Constitution - IF Congress and the Senate as a whole get off their butts and do their jobs. At end of the day, we know everyone's track record. If they keep getting voted back into office, and they are incompetent, that is on us. You would think that the people that the nation chooses to represent them would be the best.
If those in power are the best, we should be ashamed. On the other hand, if some of the best are not in government due to Citizens United, the need to raise an extremely huge amount of money just to run, and the the rug is pulling out from underneath us by those who buy campaigns, I say do something about it. But it is those who are incompetent at their jobs that want to continue this system.
We should make the entire government a minimum wage job. No work, no pay. Then we should kick Citizens United to the curb. Then we should kick big money to the curb. Then we might get some much needed work done.
We would see the minimum wage sky rocket. The Senate and the Congress would actually do their jobs.
But no matter what reforms are made to the system, if we don't pay attention, vote for competency over personality or loyalty, the we are in the same boat. In trouble.
Quote: "We should make the entire government a minimum wage job. No work, no pay. Then we should kick Citizens United to the curb. Then we should kick big money to the curb. Then we might get some much-needed work done."
Hear! Hear! Wotta concept, Nancy. 🫡
"Strongly worded" position - with a not so strong effect...
Karma will find them, all of them. There will be no hole too deep for them to hide in, that the consequences of their deeds will not catch up to them.
Stating the obvious, this is what happens when someone is placed in the highest office that has ZERO concept of accountability.
Would the pardons stand up against Article II Section IV of the Constitution?
Don’t forget, trump doesn’t believe in, or follow the Constitution.
With this supreme court ?
Sadly true, but if "his part of the court took the psychedelics he just signed an executive order for...
Hell they might do a lot less damage if they just rode in their space ships listening to Pink Floyd at epic volume.
"...all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office upon impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
But the problem, as I see it, is that if the bloated orange dotard issues blanket pardons for "...treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors," then his minions are off the hook. NOT at the state level, no, but we know they are all crooks, including and especially the Prez, who has full immunity thanks to the unsupremes, so what could be done? They'd all be able to squirm out of prosecution like the snakes and worms they are.
Don't believe Treason can be included in the Pardon.
Hi, Laurie: Yes, the U.S. President has the constitutional authority to pardon treason, as it is a federal offense, not an impeachment case. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution provides broad authority for federal offenses, excluding only impeachment cases. However, this power applies solely to federal crimes, not state offenses, and cannot be used to pardon oneself, which remains a subject of legal debate. —Citation, University of Virginia School of Law
Thank you, Charles. Wasn't sure. Happy to know and disappointed at the same time. Ultimately, I am hoping all if his pardons will be challenged on the basis of diminished capacity at time they were issued. Just being wishful.
Any provision anywhere for recall of the president? Since he got voted in, perhaps national convention to un-elect him? CA threw out Gray Davis at the state level. What happened to we the people or was it misstated to wee people.
The various provisions in the Constitution never foresaw a President would be in cahoots and control with both houses of congress, SC and have a DOJ whose only purpose is to go after his political enemies.
Hi, Russ. You are right: The sainted founders, prescient as they were, never quite foresaw a maniac like the bloated orange. I ran your query past Google Gemini, who I have found to be excellent at civics. This is long but thoroughly detailed. As we all know, AI can make mistakes. Note that Gemini cites her sources for each paragraph.
There is no legal provision in the U.S. Constitution, federal statutes, or through any "national convention" that allows voters to un-elect or recall a sitting President before their term is up.
—Medium
While it may feel like a technicality, here is why the mechanisms you described don't exist at the federal level:
Why a "National Convention" Can't Un-elect
National conventions (like the RNC or DNC) are purely party functions, not government bodies.
Purpose: Their role is to nominate a candidate during an election year. Once that person is elected and sworn in, the party convention loses any formal power over them.
Legal Standing: Because the President is elected through the Electoral College (a Constitutional process), a private party gathering cannot legally "nullify" the results of that constitutional event.
—C G A - Connecticut General Assembly (.gov)
The "We the People" Disconnect
The phrase "We the People" established the source of the government's authority, but the Framers were deeply wary of what they called "factions" or "mob rule".
—Marquette Law School
Stability over Immediacy: They intentionally made it difficult to remove a leader mid-term to prevent the country from falling into a "permanent campaign cycle" or constant leadership turnover based on sudden shifts in public mood.
The Compromise: They chose regular elections every four years. In their view, "the people" exercise their power by choosing not to re-elect a president, rather than recalling them.
—Medium
Addressing the "Control of All Branches" Scenario
The Constitution assumes that the House, Senate, and Supreme Court will act as checks on each other. If one party controls the presidency, both houses of Congress, and the DOJ, the primary constitutional "safety valves"—impeachment and legislative oversight—effectively stall.
—Brown Political Review
(This is Chuck writing: the Checks and Balances only work if members are men and women of honor and decency. We have a rogue, criminal Christofascist regime.)
No "Emergency" Voter Override: There is no "break glass in case of emergency" provision that allows voters to bypass a unified government to force a removal.
Sole Remedies: In the situation you described, the remaining legal avenues are:
Midterm Elections: Using the vote to change the majority in Congress to re-establish checks and balances.
General Elections: Voting the president out at the end of the four-year term.
Constitutional Amendment: Changing the Constitution itself to add a recall provision—though this requires a two-thirds vote in Congress and three-fourths of the states, a nearly impossible bar in a divided country.
Medium
While states like California can "throw out" a governor because their state constitutions specifically allow it, the federal system was built to be a much more rigid and slow-moving machine.
Medium
AI can make mistakes, so double-check responses, which I have with a thorough read-through. For my buck, though, Gemini seems to have nailed it, and I do know civics.
There is no "break glass in case of emergency"
Worth reading just to find this. precious. We have a 5 alarm fire and all we can do is watch right now. Presuming Dems come to power in November, still not sure King Tut can be throttled down. He could use all those emergency laws and executive edicts to lock up those he does not like.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1EBT95aSsg/
We will never straighten out our country with this sort of rampant corruption.
We will never straighten out our country with this sort of rampant corruption.
1. Pam Bondi will be disbarred
2. Todd Blanche will be disbarred
3. Pete Hegseth will face Internation trial at the Hague
4. The President may eventually face an International Trial and will be labelled an International War criminal
5. Snoozie Viles will undergo cancer treatment
6. Harmeet Dhillon will face disbarment
7. Creatures like Patel, Miller will likely be 'confronted in public'; that is all I will say which is my First Amendment right
Why, if trump and his cabinet is "making America great again" and doing all the right things, would he NEED to pardon anyone? Seems as though he and his cronies KNOW what they have done/are doing is not kosher!!!
The american federal legal system for me as a european "spectator" seems to rely very heavily on the ethical behaviour and the moral grounds of the acting people.
Most of the insiders know that and they see the problems that might arise from that since a couple of years. But the majority seems to be fine with (or because of) that situation.
Something, that I cannot understand as a foreigner. At least I would expect an established, ongoing public discourse about what still might be acceptable or what clearly is over the top. But nobody seems to be interested...
I assure you there is a lot of concern. We are testing the limits of democracy, that has a fatal flaw. It relies on the majority of voters making altruistic decisions in the best interests of the nation. We now realize that is not true, it has become mob rule.
Socrates, a very learned man had it right:
To understand Socrates' views on democracy, consider the following points:
Socrates questioned the competence of the average citizen to make informed decisions.
He believed that democracy could lead to the rule of the uninformed majority.
Socrates emphasized the importance of knowledge and wisdom in governance.
He argued that true leadership should be based on expertise rather than popularity.
Socrates was concerned that democracy could result in mob rule and chaos.
He advocated for a system led by philosopher-kings who possess true understanding.
You pulled my feet back to the ground. - So we seem to have to wait that the environment becomes harsh enough to create some strong people again. Takes some time and we might loose some of the good fellows during that journey…
I guess you have to see what bad feels like before you can appreciate good.
I'm more concerned about surviving this regime than worried about whether a future president might abuse pardons. How much more abuse can we withstand?
But be assured: We will never return to those "good old days" - probably...
Imagine if Al Capone could pardon himself and his gang. What would follow? Probably the US would be a Dictatorship now. (Already).
Maybe Trump is not as senile as most people think. He knows that his people around him are criminals like he is and he knows they’ve committed crimes that we’re not aware of yet. What we are seeing here is something I’m going to call.
PREEMPTIVE PARDONS.
Preemptive pardons make a whole lot of sense for the Trump administration because nearly everybody in the Trump order is a criminal.
Wouldn’t it be nice if preemptive prayer actually worked. I’m gonna give it a try. Dear God, in Jesus name, would you restore the limbs of amputees just to show everybody that you really exist and that you’re not evil like I think you are.
I’d vote for the Big Guy curing cancer first. As a side effect that would cure a lot of amputees too.
The pardon system should be abandoned, except for (all) turkeys.
We need NEW "GUARDRAIL" LEGISLATION for a plethora of loopholes, backdoor, Blackmail, extortion,
EPSTEIN FILES, and a whole lotta CORRUPTION MOST OF US HAVE NEVER SEEN NOR HEARD OF
BEFORE!!! 🤬🤬🤬